宋朝軍隊有多強？讓蒙古軍隊打了40年才滅亡

每逢討論親中史就總係有D矯枉過正撚彈出黎
成鳩日以為D同官方觀點相反既POINT就一定係真實咁

邊個 贏咪邊個真

就係提出相反論點先有得討論嘛

漢人首次淪陷

其實唔係首次，漢人喺五胡亂華已經被破處，不過北方異族軍閥比後來入侵支那嘅漁獵民族更樂於被漢人同化

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

其實個人認為南宋根本無心北伐
南宋個期靠海外貿易幫南宋賺到傻
當時基本上成個經濟都係靠海外貿易發展
成個政府主要都係諗點賺錢
諗下佢地寧願俾歲幣都寧願唔打仗
因為一打仗 佢地貿易發展一定會停滯
而且要明白以當時南宋個期
北方發展其實落後好多
如果要攻城略地 反而要用好多錢去發展
仲要派軍隊去守
對政府黎講其實唔抵
所以當時文官心態係
起多隻船比打多個城有用好多
所以係好少人支持北伐

每逢討論親中史就總係有D矯枉過正撚彈出黎
成鳩日以為D同官方觀點相反既POINT就一定係真實咁

啱啊

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

元代中國係文藝上其實比好多朝代都發達

以前我都幾確信元政府設立種族分離制度剝削漢人自尊，但係我諗諗吓又覺得唔妥，如果蒙古人真係咁玻璃心嘅話，一早就連漢人嘅文化都清洗埋，仲點會有朱明

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

留名等人叫你睇marco polo 本遊記

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

留名等人叫你睇marco polo 本遊記

第一次聽人幫蒙古打飛機，連登仔世界級

想認識蒙古史，與其依賴維基百科，不如真係買幾本書來讀，日本學者岡田英弘，杉山正明寫既書對蒙古既評價係比中國人客觀好多。

《忽必烈的挑戰︰蒙古帝國與世界歷史的大轉向》超越以西歐、中國為主體的觀點，描繪出有別于以往的世界史；蒙古不再局限于野蠻入侵者或軍事破壞者的形象。

仲有本叫顛覆世界史的蒙古，你地讀完再批評都唔遲。

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

其實照你呢個咁偏激嘅思維，所有遊牧民族都應該要施以種族滅絕

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

我幾時有唔講，問題係教科書只係focus係蒙古軍事征服既印象本身已經係偏頗，而教科書寫漢朝自己點樣開疆辟土又唔會講自己點樣殘殺異族，根本係雙重標準。

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

其實照你呢個咁偏激嘅思維，所有遊牧民族都應該要施以種族滅絕

漢武帝, 曹操一樣種族滅絕匈奴

想認識蒙古史，與其依賴維基百科，不如真係買幾本書來讀，日本學者岡田英弘，杉山正明寫既書對蒙古既評價係比中國人客觀好多。

《忽必烈的挑戰︰蒙古帝國與世界歷史的大轉向》超越以西歐、中國為主體的觀點，描繪出有別于以往的世界史；蒙古不再局限于野蠻入侵者或軍事破壞者的形象。

仲有本叫顛覆世界史的蒙古，你地讀完再批評都唔遲。

成吉思汗曾夢想「讓青天之下皆成蒙古人之牧場」。很多古代文獻都記載，在蒙古的擴張過程中，無數的古代文明遭到毀滅，無數城市被被摧毀，根據R. J. Rummel估計，在蒙古帝國的入侵下有3000萬人被殺。在蒙古帝國對西方的擴張過程中有2,000萬人被屠殺；整個亞洲的人口分佈亦發生重大變化。David Nicole 在The Mongol Warlords中說，「恐怖和大規模滅絕反對者是蒙古人屢試不爽的戰術」。伊斯蘭世界的東半部經歷了恐怖的死亡與毀滅。從1219年到1260年，由於大屠殺和饑荒，波斯的總人口從1200萬下降到110萬。在中亞河中地區和大呼羅珊，自希臘—巴克特利亞王國時期建立的水利灌溉系統被徹底毀滅，同時也伴隨着無數良田荒蕪和成為沙漠；在西亞，自阿卡德帝國和古巴比倫時期建立的水利灌溉系統被徹底毀壞，大量良田荒蕪。據統計，西亞地區的耕地面積至今未恢復到蒙古人入侵之前的60%。中亞、西亞及東歐至少七十多個城市遭到蒙古軍屠城，有的城市甚至被多次屠城，給當地人民造成巨大災難和痛苦記憶。歷史學家估計匈牙利王國（1241年—1242年）當時200萬人口中的一半在拔都進攻下都死於蒙古入侵。基輔羅斯幾乎所有的城市均被摧毀，投降者作為奴隸，大部分因繁重的勞役很快死去，戰俘則加入蒙古軍隊繼續西征。大約一半的俄國人死於蒙古入侵。但是，Colin McEvedy的《世界人口史地圖集》（1978）估計俄國歐洲部分的人口從入侵前的750萬下降到700萬。中國人口在蒙古入侵的七十年間因戰爭和包括因戰爭造成的各種原因被消滅了一半。在蒙古入侵以前（1200年），中國（包括金朝、西夏、南宋、大理國）人口約有1億4千4百萬，甚至更多，而到1278年（1279年完全佔領）只有7,000萬人。

外國人對蒙古嘅評價，你當啲外國學者死晒？
一句講晒，你覺得蒙古對世界遺害多定貢獻多

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

凱撒會唔會整爛晒人地d地 個規模咁誇張
整爛d耕地真係好絕

Carthage?

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

其實照你呢個咁偏激嘅思維，所有遊牧民族都應該要施以種族滅絕

支那既出現其實都毀滅左無數文明，好似嶺南差唔多係比完全消滅，後來平定準廓爾個時，中原政權都係種族滅絕左人地蒙古人

皇帝好難唔廢 人係咁㗎啦 食好住好梗係貪生怕死好多因素搞到宋朝滅亡 基本上唔係話單單外敵入侵 明都係

明朝萬曆唔打宋朝留下的播州軍，根本可以令國運延續到十八世紀。

好難了 我之前係明朝個post都講過 明朝唔係輸比滿清李自成 係輸人心輸制度崩壞撞到埋小冰河期 有人都講過明後期已經好接近君主憲政體制 皇帝太廢 權力落左去內閣即係首輔到 例如 張居正 于謙 我諗挨多20年 亞洲最強唔會係日本

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

我幾時有唔講，問題係教科書只係focus係蒙古軍事征服既印象本身已經係偏頗，而教科書寫漢朝自己點樣開疆辟土又唔會講自己點樣殘殺異族，根本係雙重標準。

漢族有冇對一個文明種族滅絕？
蒙古係毀滅文明同屠城為戰術
波斯1200萬人死剩100萬人
同普通戰爭比？
邊個偏頗你知我知單眼佬都知

蒙古統治既貢獻，自己search下Pax Mongolica，係歷史上第一次出現跨越歐亞既貿易體系，西方史學界，包括埋日本都係承認既。

Under the Mongols new technologies and commodities were exchanged across the Old World, particularly Eurasia. Professor Thomas T.Allsen noted many personnel exchanges occurred during the Mongol period.[38] There were many significant developments in economy (especially trade and public finance), military, medicine, agriculture, cuisine, astronomy, printing, geography, and historiography, which were not limited to Eurasia but also included North Africa. The Mongolian Empire functioned as the principal cultural clearing house for the Old World until its downturn when it was gradually replaced by maritime Europe which in time came to perform similar offices for the Old World and the New.

當然打仗一定係死人，當年凱撒征服高盧都差唔多殺左人地幾百萬，歐洲人開拓新大陸一樣殺左唔少人

你都幾撚好笑，殺左一個國家多過一半人，毀滅無數文明，摧毀絕大多數肥沃土地你唔講，幫蒙古打飛機？
一句講晒，蒙古嘅出現對世界都係disaster

其實照你呢個咁偏激嘅思維，所有遊牧民族都應該要施以種族滅絕

冇人話要滅佢族只係蒙古侵略根本係劣幣驅良幣，幾多文明比佢收左皮，所謂蒙古帶起全球貿易只係副產品