外國媒體報導越嚟越多 13900K 用家陸續出現遊戲崩潰情形,Intel 未有回應!

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power_off 2024-02-22 22:46:36
點睇

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/is-your-intel-core-i9-13900k-crashing-in-games-your-motherboard-bios-settings-may-be-to-blame-other-high-end-intel-cpus-also-affected

Increasing numbers of users of the Core i9-13900K and Core i7-13700K have reported crashes in some of the latest games, usually accompanied by an out of video memory error. It's not just random end-users either: Our GPU reviewer has personally dealt with this, as has Hassan Mujtaba from WCCFTech. There's a new Steam forum thread on the subject as well. Considering Intel's processors are some of the best CPUs for gaming, it's a particularly painful problem when things go amiss.

Our GPU reviewer dealt with the matter and finally tracked down the root cause to his motherboard's default power and current limit settings. Both were set to effectively "unlimited" — 4096W and 4096A — after loading the default optimized BIOS settings. That was with a Core i9-13900K, and while most reports concern the 13900K and 13700K thus far, the Core i9-14900K and Core i7-14700K may also be affected given they're basically the same silicon.

Complaints about stability issues on the 13900K and 13700K aren't exactly widespread, but have become particularly concentrated on a handful of games, specifically for those with shader compilation. It's not even just a rumor going around on forums as at least two developers and Nvidia itself have explicitly identified that the "out of video memory error," which you would normally think is a GPU issue, is actually related to 13th Gen CPUs.

Gearbox and Fatshark, which develop Remnant 2 and Vermintide 2 respectively, have both noted these very issues and have narrowed them down to the 13900K, and also the 13700K according to Fatshark. Gearbox even says, "If you experience this problem, you will likely also see it in other DX12 games," which is to say that it's not an issue specific to Remnant 2. The issue isn't even that new, as Gearbox's warnings were made back in August.

Our own Jarred Walton has seen the problem in quite a few games: Alan Wake 2, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Immortals of Aveum, Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition, and The Last of Us, Part 1 to name specific examples. Hogwarts, Horizon, and The Last of Us are all particularly painful examples in his case, and at 'stock' settings would crash during the shader compilation process probably over 90% of the time. So what's going on?

For its part, Nvidia told a user that, "Despite the game saying the issue is with your VRAM... Unreal Engine 5 games seem to have some issues with this particular model (and possibly other 13th-generation Intel CPUs)."

Nvidia and the two developers have all recommended that users who experience these crashes on the 13900K and other CPUs downclock their chips by up to 200MHz. The obvious downside of this is that it reduces performance, which isn't exactly ideal. But we and others have found some other solutions that seem to work just as well.
power_off 2024-02-22 22:47:43


The root cause of these issues according to our own investigation is related to the high default power and current limits that some motherboards may use. Keep in mind that power, current, voltage, and frequency are all interrelated, so changes to one can affect the others. Underclocking, undervolting, or power/current limiting the CPU all appear to be valid workarounds.

Intel's default maximum TDP for the 13900K is 253 watts, though it can easily consume 300 watts or more when given a higher power limit. In our testing, manually setting the power limit to 275–300 watts and the amperage limit to 350A, proved to be perfectly stable for our 13900K. That required going into the advanced CPU settings in the BIOS to change the PL1/PL2 limits — called short and long duration power limits in our particular case. The motherboard's default "Auto" power and current limits meanwhile created instability issues — which correspond to a power limit of 4,096 watts and 4,096 amps.

Others have reportedly had success by undervolting their CPUs. Again, P = IV (power equals current times voltage), so changing one of those can potentially do the trick. Power, current, and voltage can also scale with frequency, and thus Nvidia's suggestion to underclock by 200 MHz likely also works for many who are affected by this particular issue.

Note that you can use tools like Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility to change these settings within Windows. The end result is the same, though we prefer tweaking the BIOS rather than XTU as the changes saved there are permanent and don't require installing any extra software.

With past Intel CPUs, setting a TDP or amperage absurdly high generally didn't make a difference, as complex frequency boosting rules determine how much actual power and current are used. There are protection mechanisms to prevent a CPU from damaging itself. However, the 13900K in particular can be negatively impacted by these high or unlimited power settings.

It's not exactly clear why the 13900K suffers from these instability problems, and how exactly downclocking, lowering the power/current limits, and undervolting prevent further crashes. Clearly, something is going wrong with some CPUs. Are they "defective" or merely not capable of running the out of spec settings used by many motherboards? Because we've heard of others where one 13900K works fine while a different 13900K doesn't, meaning the silicon lottery is likely in full effect here.

Ultimately, power can be a real problem with Intel's Raptor Lake CPUs. Our reduced power and current limits as an example dropped maximum CPU temperatures by about 15C — we were routinely hitting up to 100C when we saw the crashing problems. We also theorize that maybe it's an issue with Vdroop and load-line calibration, which if improperly configured, could result in a CPU using too much or too little voltage, especially if it suddenly ramps up or down in clock speed.

We've reached out to Intel for comment, but as of the time of writing we haven't heard back. In the meantime, if you're using a 13th or 14th Gen Core i9 or i7 and you're experiencing these crashes with certain games, you might want to downclock, undervolt, or set a power/current limit on your CPU. There's a good chance that will fix the problem.
power_off 2024-02-22 22:54:07
症狀是BIOS全預設情況下執行2077等高CPU負載遊戲時會閃退、BSOD

如果執行OCCT、R23、P95、XTU AVX2 Stress Test等燒機測試則高機率無法通過

根據巴哈、Reddit上及Intel社群內容,Gen13 i9與i7、i5都有類似問題,最多人遇到0x000005錯誤,BSOD訊息不一定

依照蒐集案例及自身測試,疑似為Intel給出的預設BIOS行為模式及製程問題,在全預設下CPU電壓會被長期加到1.4v以上,如果更激進一點的甚至可以看到1.6v的峰值,本來這應該是為晶片王也能正常運作而設的標準

但在此條件下長期運作後會導致CPU 的某個P-Core無法在相同電壓保持穩定運作,通常在一年左右就會開始發生上述症狀

如果發生了則必須調整BIOS中的LLC及SVID Behavior來增壓或是降低PL1、2至更低的數值保持P-Core的穩定

若各位手頭上有Gen13/14 CPU可以用以下標準測試來簡單判斷

MB全預設
P95 small 1H Pass(可選,極為嚴苛,在一般遊戲及日常使用下不太可能觸發此場景,個人選擇拿來做溫度強與功耗測試)
R23 30M Pass
OCCT small extreme 1H Pass
XTU AVX2 stress test 1H Pass
如果可能,使用2077等高CPU負載遊戲連續進行基準測試,以上測試皆不可出現閃退、BSOD、WHEA錯誤

以上若有無法通過的項目可嘗試性的調整LLC至Medium或開啟SVID Behavior的Intel's Fail Safe、限制PL並再次做測試,若測試通過則表示極高機率其中一顆P-Core縮缸

請發生以上症狀的版友將您的CPU RMA,強烈建議不要長期開啟LLC至高檔位或SVID Behavior的Intel's Fail Safe,這只會將CPU電壓繼續升高,高溫高壓長期使用下可能帶來壽命減損,且只能延緩CPU的問題,時間一長問題還是會浮現

因目前Intel沒有官方說明,暫時無法完全肯定就是此造成的,在此只能以蒐集到的案例作判斷,僅供各位參考

以我Gen13 i9k送修前的測試環境如下

i9-13900k+NT-H1
NH-D15
Gigabyte Z790 Aorus MASTER
Gigabyte RTX-4080s Gaming OC 16G
Kingston KF560C36BBEK2-64
Delta GPS-1300DB X
WD SN750X 1TB
WD SN850X 2TB*2
Crusial MX500 1TB
Crusial MX500 4TB
BQT Shadow Base 800
BIOS全預設,無XMP,PL1、2限制253W

手頭上暫時沒有Gen13的CPU可以測試BIOS版本跟電壓的相關性了,待送修回來再另外做測試

另外,我手頭上並沒有專業儀器可以檢測長期高電壓及高溫對CPU的隱藏損害,僅能以案例作判斷

若版友有類似狀況歡迎放上來供大家做參考順便蒐集數據

補充內容:有鑑於版上拿Gen13/14 CPU的人多數有電壓長期高於1.4V的問題,因此更新了本補充內容,主題是以簡單的設定來讓電壓下降,文內盡可能地以簡單且詳細為原則,避免新手或不熟悉BIOS的人操作失誤,因此本文不會以最佳設定解述

我不是專業的調校者,只是根據國內外網友們分享設定及以前的經驗,測試後再補充給各位,僅供參考,若有說明上的錯誤或設定建議懇請不吝賜教

警告,調整BIOS有一定風險與難度,請詳細理解設定的意義並知道如何清除或重置CMOS後再往下進行

【心得】Intel Gen13/14 CPU在BIOS預設下使用不穩定(相關案例整理與建議)(補充簡單降壓教學)
https://forum.gamer.com.tw/C.php?bsn=60030&snA=640144

注意:設定前建議刪除各板廠搭載軟體,例如Gigabyte的Control Center,且還原預設值,請不要使用此來調整相關數據
power_off 2024-02-22 23:00:24
巴哈用家喊苦:用了13900K約快一年就縮肛,很多遊戲都會閃退






https://forum.gamer.com.tw/Co.php?bsn=60030&sn=2459905
power_off 2024-02-22 23:11:00
14900K 都出事!巴哈網友哭訴明明沒超頻但都出現遊戲閃退
https://forum.gamer.com.tw/Co.php?bsn=60030&sn=2460004


power_off 2024-02-22 23:19:22

恥倫 2024-02-23 01:39:44
斷估本身list出嚟嘅top freq ratio已經係OC
只係intel想賣個spec difference就照出個setting
其實有幾多人部機會好似lab env長期mon住啲零件狀態
喺唔為意下由得粒u行 peak setting 就燒得快
Ching 2024-02-23 01:44:38
有undervolt,147k正常使用中
•加藤恵• 2024-02-23 01:45:26
AMD問題
power_off 2024-02-23 02:29:20
巴打好似幾仇視 intel 咁成日見你冷嘲熱諷咁串 intel,但又拉 post 喎,唔係好明你到底想點
嘔泡果奶 2024-02-23 02:30:03
唔係工程師學咩人用AMD
咦……
其實出現呢種情況好明顯係用家問題囉
VL203268 2024-02-23 02:31:11
用intel 要undervolt
Kaizoku 2024-02-23 02:35:12
省心系列
power_off 2024-02-23 02:36:54
但 undervolt 都有機會縮缸,估唔到用 intel 都會有做工程師嘅一日,要好似以前 ryzen 1~2 代咁慢慢 tune 粒 u
在141尋求邂逅 2024-02-23 02:38:25
估唔到, 下部機仲諗住用intel
VL203268 2024-02-23 02:39:16
好耐啦… 6-7系後已經係指定動作
佢d發熱係好離譜
power_off 2024-02-23 02:39:30
推人用 K CPU + B 老母板嗰啲正仆街嚟
燃狗小菜 2024-02-23 02:40:03
lm
Kaizoku 2024-02-23 02:43:10
推人用intel 都是仆街
夜刀神十香 2024-02-23 02:44:18
最近幫我朋友砌咗部攻頂機,好彩揀咗7950x3d如果唔係出事都唔知點交代
power_off 2024-02-23 02:45:02
唔理 lu,等我反其道而行玩爆粒 13900k
夜刀神十香 2024-02-23 02:45:25
依家好似調返轉amd 出廠即用intel 要做工程師
power_off 2024-02-23 02:46:46
有冇估唔到我會咁理性開 POST 講 intel 壞話
軟件工程師 2024-02-23 06:13:24
7950x3d一出個陣會燒u
利申用緊
Kaizoku 2024-02-23 06:22:10
全球都唔知有冇100個有事
共碩偷加電
GIGA衰on9 bios flash
MSI好似冇事
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