想問下電腦業行內人士關於amd/煙既問題

53 回覆
50 Like 12 Dislike
2021-11-15 14:42:43
以我嘅理解,intel / AMD 近年已經無話邊間特別伏,大家代代表現都唔同,有時伏有時筍。

所以呢啲日新月異嘅嘢唔好睇死一個牌子,要睇當時嘅 test review 先定到。
ex:
intel 11代 大伏,10代筍 ,12代暫時好但有bug
AMD 3千系出果時筍 ,5千系唔伏但貴到 high high, Ryzen 以前嘅伏


AMD嘅顯示卡又同佢嘅 cpu 分開睇, 佢 顯示卡果代伏但cpu 可以做得好。但總體暫時用家體驗都係俾 Nvidia 㩒住砌,得零件性能上CP值高做賣點。 不過要發揮硬件優勢,靠官方程式就收得。 好似某啲挖礦程式咁有專門針對去發揮效力應該會掂過 N卡。

長遠希望做到好似打 intel cpu 咁互有勝負就好,大家唔使下下俾老黃獨大㩒住搶。

btw, intel 話嚟緊出顯示卡 ,唔係淨係綑綁銷售嘅內顯。 唔知到時會咩環境
2021-11-15 14:50:59
如果咁講, AMD 工程師顯示卡果代都只係
舊野跟唔到新,撞到個層面上升到全世界有影響

考慮不週定其他原因,大家都係出新 bios 先解決到,其實無分別。 Tesla 如果出架車新到除配合測試時定好嘅賽道外(win11),全世界馬路都兼容唔到。 算世界嘅問題,定得 tesla 設計嘅 bug ?
2021-11-15 14:51:57
唔係業內既人都答到你 and driver不嬲易炒
2021-11-15 15:38:22
其實普通人cpu就煙,display就n卡,
amd真係好少考慮
2021-11-15 16:08:03
5)唔好信刁民丁
2021-11-15 16:50:31
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-12900k-and-core-i5-12600k-review-retaking-the-gaming-crown

As you'll soon see, the lack of optimized thread scheduling can greatly impact performance with Windows 10 systems, at least in some situations. To be clear, Windows 10 does have limited support for hybrid-optimized thread scheduling due to optimizations for Intel's Lakefield chips. However, while Windows 10 is aware of hybrid topologies, meaning it knows the difference between the performance and efficiency of the different core types, it doesn't have access to the thread-specific telemetry provided by Intel's hardware-based solution.

As a result, threads can and will land on the incorrect cores under some circumstances, which Intel warned could result in higher run-to-run variability in benchmarks. It will also impact the chips during normal use with Windows 10, too.

Additionally, we found that performance can be inconsistent on Windows 10, with some programs running faster at times but slower at others. This seems to become more prevalent during multitasking, but we're still working to fully quantify the impact — its variable nature makes it hard to pin down. 


最大問題係好多時,尤其是單核時綁死 win 11 先得。 新嘢要配Thread director 唔係問題,但問題係 tread director 淨係話俾 win 11 知點分核,win 11 同有為 win 11 配套以外嘅嘢全部死得。

呢個唔係 bug 嘅話,使鬼出 patch補飛。佢試下唔好出 或者你試下唔好用?
買12代除咗全部配新嘢外,得 E core 性能

舊式防盜係 minor 嘢嘅話,win 11外都會自動用 e-core 玩單核遊戲好明顯有問題。
如果係windows 自己問題應該要做到好似以前 windows capability issues 咁可以windows入面自己修改。

新嘢唔支援年代久遠概舊嘢好合理,但對現行嘅系統都唔支援 or 無預備好支援計劃已經係一個 bug。唔通我做嘢又要預你啲軟件全部支援曬先可以繼續做? 定係你出新嘢其實唔預俾我即刻正常用?

如果現行嘢用都用唔到就直接叫失敗,12代咁用到但使用上有瑕疵叫有 bug。 不過瑕不掩瑜之餘,個bug係嚟緊會 fix 到而中間唔會有大問題咁解。
2021-11-15 17:28:36
其他人我唔知, AMD 有 bug 果排我都係笑佢工程師。 所以話2間其實代代唔同環境。

9代一出大家覺得幾好,擠少咗牙膏。3千系打9代又大快人心,而且仲要平啲。
10代性能反追同時即刻價格跳水迎戰3千系果排簡直係用家福音。

唔係近年晶片 shortage 嘅個問題令到後期3千系提價、5千系價錢更係大幅提升嘅話, intel 應該都無位可以10代、11代、12代 跟住大幅調價。

AMD shortage 係 TSMC 產能跟唔上,焗住食 TSMC 提價買產能之餘出貨量下降,唯有走高定價去彌補出貨量少嘅損失。
Intel 有自家廠無產能問題 (不過製程技術.....) ,供貨充足下明顯係睇住食。 人哋加價,佢都可以提價食多啲。

結論:
有得鬥先有平靚正嘅產品,用家先有得揀。
尤其是叮噹馬頭時係最正,所以成日希望有人可以收下老黃皮。

利申:
除咗屎色貓扇外,無特定陣營。
最好齊齊鬥到死
2021-11-15 17:30:58
想揾果段可以 求救 copy 一句用in page finder 去揾。 分段標題好似係 windows 10 performance issue
2021-11-15 17:31:38
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-12900k-and-core-i5-12600k-review-retaking-the-gaming-crown

As you'll soon see, the lack of optimized thread scheduling can greatly impact performance with Windows 10 systems, at least in some situations. To be clear, Windows 10 does have limited support for hybrid-optimized thread scheduling due to optimizations for Intel's Lakefield chips. However, while Windows 10 is aware of hybrid topologies, meaning it knows the difference between the performance and efficiency of the different core types, it doesn't have access to the thread-specific telemetry provided by Intel's hardware-based solution.

As a result, threads can and will land on the incorrect cores under some circumstances, which Intel warned could result in higher run-to-run variability in benchmarks. It will also impact the chips during normal use with Windows 10, too.

Additionally, we found that performance can be inconsistent on Windows 10, with some programs running faster at times but slower at others. This seems to become more prevalent during multitasking, but we're still working to fully quantify the impact — its variable nature makes it hard to pin down. 


最大問題係好多時,尤其是單核時綁死 win 11 先得。 新嘢要配Thread director 唔係問題,但問題係 tread director 淨係話俾 win 11 知點分核,win 11 同有為 win 11 配套以外嘅嘢全部死得。

呢個唔係 bug 嘅話,使鬼出 patch補飛。佢試下唔好出 或者你試下唔好用?
買12代除咗全部配新嘢外,得 E core 性能

舊式防盜係 minor 嘢嘅話,win 11外都會自動用 e-core 玩單核遊戲好明顯有問題。
如果係windows 自己問題應該要做到好似以前 windows capability issues 咁可以windows入面自己修改。

新嘢唔支援年代久遠概舊嘢好合理,但對現行嘅系統都唔支援 or 無預備好支援計劃已經係一個 bug。唔通我做嘢又要預你啲軟件全部支援曬先可以繼續做? 定係你出新嘢其實唔預俾我即刻正常用?

如果現行嘢用都用唔到就直接叫失敗,12代咁用到但使用上有瑕疵叫有 bug。 不過瑕不掩瑜之餘,個bug係嚟緊會 fix 到而中間唔會有大問題咁解。
禁入去一望
已經見到標題自己都寫tldr
Windows 11: Core i9-12900K and i5-12600K Gaming Benchmarks — The TLDR

通篇都中立平均咁讚兩家大鬥法真係唔知邊忽話intel/細核有問題
講起e core 根本電話cpu架構黎前年講到咁行要踩死bluestick個d 模擬器都知咩事啦
amd黏個陣一堆bug就體諒新野
intel出新撞到陳年野就話intel bug

唔洗下下乜都升到去bios層面既,現今個問題係4大板廠都係得msi暫時有patch,仲要係熄e core 等個軟件認唔到細核既存在解決返軟件錯認細核係另一個系統實情根本無解決過

老老豆豆要屌,就屌哂兩家x86都擠牙膏好過啦
amd 既v cache出黎,又唔知幾多人要含淚再換,唔講中間粒陳年die同am4害左幾多人啦
黎緊換lga ,到時大細核最後呢個bug搞唔掂係咪又係要含多獲...5年ryzen除左屌wintel屌intel,x86就係咁喇閪喇到成車ryzen上唔到11啊,用linux囉
想揾果段可以 求 copy 一句用in page finder 去揾。 分段標題好似係 windows 10 performance issue
2021-11-15 18:19:33
佢講緊佢個 test setup 嘅環境, 喺用 AMD 行 win 11 嘅測試時已同時安裝埋最新嘅windows update patches。 而個 AMD 話呢個 patches 已經 fix 咗之前 performance issue 嘅 bug 。

篇文係 address 嚟話俾大家知佢測試環境已經 exclude 咗早前 AMD 喺 win 11 嘅問題。



所以一個係win 11出完發現兼容舊嘢有 bug & fixed, 一個係淨係顧住win 11但對win10呢啲現有系統有 bug & to-be-fixed。
大家都係有 performance issues 嘅 bug,不過 fix 咗未咁解。


觀念:

1- 所有產品牽涉到新軟件配合必然有唔同嘅 bug,啲蟲多少同大細嘅問題

2- 涉軟件相關嘅產品成個產品週期都係 bug fixing 中渡過,windows 更新不斷做例子。而好多時 fix 咗一個 known issue 之後炒咗另一樣舊嘢。

3- 出新嘢條友有責任兼容現有舊嘢,除非佢唔預用家喺佢呢樣產品上用其他人嘅嘢。

ex: mac book 行 windows 有幾多 bug 都無人嘈,因為佢講明唔預你用。 但如果係更新新嘅OS 出事,就會俾人插到上天。
2021-11-15 18:47:37
我早排一直推緊人砌 10代喎
而家有錢想超嘅12代
有錢普通用家先推 5千系


睇 test review 佢夾啲個人意見如果你照單全收你係問題啦

我就係睇數據同對 known issues 嘅解釋 & 影響, TLDR嘅conclusion通常睇2眼飛過就算。

而且唔止睇一條友嘅 test review,會睇多幾條友同唔同 setup & 測試方法。 無一條友嘅嘢會照單全收 (不過單獨某一篇文,如果全部認同嘅話就會)
2021-11-15 19:19:09
有時唔係咩都買最貴就好,中上model已經好夠你用
我用3800x+asus b450i+1070 display
咁耐都冇炒過任何野,windows更新都冇出事
2021-11-15 22:56:51
係,的確做左廿年整機都未見過死intel U
2021-11-15 23:26:37
10代有咩問題
2021-11-15 23:26:55
咁睇黎以後都係砌返intel穩陣
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