Canadian in Canada, works at a college

So, I'm an old white Canadian guy that wants you to move to Canada. Very biased, and selfish. Not arguing that at all. Take what you will from this.

Rental rates in Vancouver are heading down (from stupid-high), mostly because of a lack of international students (Covid related). Victoria is down as well, but not so much. Housing prices are holding on the west coast (Vancouver, Victoria) but people are expecting them to go down a bit. They're stupid-high right now, but not as high as HK. Oddly enough, they're saying Toronto immigration is down twice what Vancouver is, so there may be some HK movement already. I can't determine if it's HK people propping it up or not. The problem is that HKers with Canadian passports are Canadian... they don't show up in statistics as a group. They're just Canadian.

First, for moving to the west coast, rental availability is better than it's been in years. It's so good (bad, depending on your perspective) that people are selling condos they usually rent. Condos are apartments individually owned.

Second, if you're not a Canadian citizen and want to go the international student route for immigration, go to community college first if you're on a budget. College requirements are that you take some English and math tests to check your level. Then, you either take upgrading, or you're in. In other words, you could end up losing a year if you don't test well. But, once in, it's first come, first in rather than grade point averages. Many 2 year diploma programs have bridging into university 3rd year programs... and then all that matter is how you did in college. Community college is much cheaper, even for international students, than university is. If you want to go this route, then make sure the college program you take has that bridge. But, if you can speak English enough for the tests and you've in the right college diploma (tech is good), and you land a decent job afterwards (tech is still doing well on the west coast), then you can point your way in to an invite for landed immigrant.

I want you to move to the west coast because there's going to be a covid-driven recession. The more immigrants we have, the less that recession will be. Not going to sugar-coat the move. If you're thinking of just running up some business then you'll be shocked at the paperwork... this isn't freewheeling HK. It's a lot harder to make money here, no doubt. But, it's a nice place for a free human to live.

K12 (Kindergarten to 12th grade) is a separate world from college/university. Unionised and quite political. In BC, there's no push to go with smaller class sizes because of Covid but I suspect there are or will be some teachers unwilling to work. There may be vacancies to be filled, but they'd probably be temporary. Your best bet would be to look up the school board job websites, eg: https://www.makeafuture.ca/regions-districts/bc-public-school-districts/metro/vancouver/
or
https://www.makeafuture.ca/regions-districts/bc-public-school-districts/metro/richmond/
etc...
From those 2, it doesn't look like a lot. But, I've no idea of the turnover on those sites.

Lm

what are you?

Google translate

hi dave,welcome cheers
How do you know this forum for real??
If it is ok, do you have any recommendation for us on putting this platform to be user-friendly? i.e. we would try use less rare slang

Letting foreigners like you could feel comfortable and getting real conversation#love & hug

Thanks mate help push

Hey, this is very informative, thanks for sharing. Just a few questions on the tech sector in Canada if you don't mind answering.
1. Do you happen to know how the tech industry is like in Canada? Salary level, demand, etc.
2. I have been planning to find an expat job, but I am worried about the Corona-related border lockdown around the world. Does that apply also to Canada?
It would be lovely if you could share a bit more from your perspective

Welcome Dave

Hello Dave

How would you suggest us newcomers adjust?

Been following the protests for quite a while. I am especially curious if there will be a wave of Canadians returning from HK. Also wondering how popular Canada is as a destination for those that don't already have an exit plan.
Also, I'm a bit of a philosopher and was wondering how you were managing the protests, which led me to LIHKG.

The "World" forum seems to have shifted into Cantonese though, and google translate makes a mess of things. Like, I'm pretty sure everyone isn't planning on emigrating to Lebanon. But, that's what it keeps saying So, I thought I'd post something in English.

Anyway, I work at a community college in BC. Can't say I'm an expert in immigration or international students, but I could probably clear a few things up if you have questions.

Tech is a big part of the economy in BC, biggest industry in my city and I don't even live in Vancouver. Talent is always scarce and lack of qualified people is the biggest problem with expanding. If you've decent experience and can muddle through on the English then there's probably a job for you. While Covid has smashed the tourism industry, and there's about 11% unemployment, it's mostly service industry stuff. Tech is going as strong as ever, from what I can tell.

But, do be aware that tech generally pays less that equivalent work in the US. So, you have to make that choice... lower pay and higher quality of life, or go for the money. Not that the US is letting anyone in right now... but it's probably easier to compare any destination country's pay scale to the US than to Canada. I can generally say that with most things factored in, you'll probably end up with roughly 20% more money in the US. Someone in Germany or the UK could probably tell you how they compare to the US as well. Make sense?

I've a coworker that just got his invitation as a permanent resident on the student visa, get a job, then get express-entry route. Won't say it was easy for him... Canadian bureaucracy is not for the faint of heart. But, he's in and we're glad he's working with us.

As for getting into Canada, forget it as a tourist. You either have to have a Canadian passport or documentation that requires your travel here. Like, already have a job lined up or being enrolled as an international student. When you get here, they will expect that you have a plan to self-isolate for 2 weeks.

I don't know. Really, I've had some good Cantonese friends over the years but I don't even pretend to understand the culture. I still don't understand how the bustling Chinatown in Victoria up and decided to move to Richmond. Nearly everyone. Chinatown went from bustling, with some of the highest real estate prices in Victoria, to gutted, where half the shops in what's left of Chinatown don't even pretend to be Chinese. Been a couple decades and it still seems strange to me. So, how is it gong to work in Richmond if/when a large number of people from HK return? Been a lot of mainland Chinese immigration the last while. It's going to be a weird dynamic and I've no idea how it will settle out. Maybe they'll move back to Victoria and we'll end up with Cantonese on the Island and Mandarin on the Mainland

But, on a social level, right now with Covid everything is upside-down anyway. If you figure out a way to settle in, you might want to tell the rest of the Canadians. It's kind of funny to stand back and watch people trying to figure out what to do... we're all in a foreign land right now.

I will say that in attempting to read some of the threads here, I often come across the "we'll just start a business selling something" concept. I feel kind of sorry for them... Canada is ranked fairly well on the "small business friendly" scale but we're not HK. You've got employment standards, building zoning, permits, statutory holidays, handicap accessibility, and on and on. Lots of people do it, but, yeah, there's overhead involved. I suspect that will be a shock to some HKers.

I——

Hello Dave, I have few questions about BCIT diploma. Personally I have a bachelor degree majoring in engineering in HK and would like to take a 2 year It-related diploma for landing in Canada as a temporary shelter(hopefully it could be my new root ...) but I am confused that the requirement for those diploma. They requires a math 12 or something called pre-calculus 12. Could my university degree fulfil that requirement so that I don’t need to take the test? Thanks for your support as a freedom fighter!

I can't speak for BCIT directly, but at my college you either prove you have the prerequisites or you take an assessment test. In reality, what that usually means is that if you've recently graduated from a BC high school then they've got your transcripts and you're in. But, if you've been out of school for more than a few years or you're coming from out of province or country then you'll probably have to take that assessment test.

If you're just looking to get out and BCIT has a program you're interested in (but, do realise there are many others not quite as well known) then you need to register as a student (pay a deposit) and then figure out the particulars of getting accepted in a program. Covid has messed it up some as you need the assessment before getting in the program but you might need to be in the program before you can get in the country. I don't know how BCIT is resolving that, but I'll ask our International Education department to see how we are.

In your case, it seem the assessment is just paperwork. But, if they say you need some upgrading it's just a semester of extra courses. It still meets your primary goal. In addition, many programs offer PLAs, or Prior Learning Assessments. That's where you go to the Chair (head of the department) and ask for credits that didn't otherwise transfer. Instructors will then give you a PLA test and, if you get it, you get the credit for the course. That's going to be hard to arrange from the other side of the planet but it's a real option if you're in the college, even doing basic upgrading.

Just remember one thing... Colleges tend to be more hands-on focused than Universities. We just had a job interview where the University grad though the college program was just the first 2 years of what he did. No, it's not. It's 3 or 4 years crammed into 2 with a lot of math skipped in the process. Bridge programs that go from college to university are usually intensive math courses. Once in, the students are usually well ahead of their university peers on practical matters.

Actually, in thinking about this, the whole college and university differences are probably not clear to people in HK. I'll make that another post tonight.

Thanks for your reply.
I would like to choose one in CIT/CST/CISA diploma and I do not plan to further my study after that as soon as I’m a PR and get a cheaper tuition fee. I had a bachelor degree recently so What I concern about is if I could get a diploma and find a job to live then. From my point of view, BCIT seems not to be an university at all when compared to those in HK. It’s more like to be a technical school to equip students with skills for job hunting. Is it correct?

Short answer: Yes, if you want a job, go to college.

Way longer answer:

First, realise that I'm biased. I went to a college and got a Diploma of Technology in Electronics. After a few years of work, I decided to apply at that same college and got a job. I've been there a long time. I like my college.

Second: here's the breakdown on educational terms in BC (can't speak for other provinces):

'Accredited' means the program is recognised by the government. Anyone can start some business and call it a college or university. But, an accredited college or university involves a lot more. Stick with accredited institutions.

A accredited 'Community College' means a lot of different things. Some colleges specialise while others are very general. My college offers Trades linked with apprenticeship programs for Automotive, Carpentry, etc.. These give specialised Trades designations allowing people to work in those fields. They also offer 1 year Technician programs that give certificates, in Cook training to Electronics Networking. Certificates are things that mean something to regional employers... they just know that someone with a particular certificate makes for a good employee. They also offer 2 year (sometimes 3 year with coop work terms) in everything from Business to Civil Engineering, Nursing, Mechanical Engineering, Electronics Engineering, and Computer Science. Again, these 2 year diploma programs are widely recognised in industry as "good to hire" and many also bridge into 3rd year University programs. My college also offers 'Associate Degrees' in Arts and Science. I have an Associate of Arts in Philosophy... that and a food-safe course will qualify you as a short order cook (sorry, standard engineering joke). My college is large by Community College standards. My college has a very good reputation with regional employers.

An accredited University offers what most people think of as Universities. 4 year Bachelor programs, Masters, Doctorates, etc..

Realise that these institutions get the same money for domestic (Canadian) and International students. International students pay a lot more because the institution doesn't get government funding for them. But, there's another bit to this that most don't understand... the government rations funding for students, granting them as "full time equivalent" (FTE) numbers. Thus, my college gets funding for roughly 9000 students a year. But, we can bring in international students on top of that. So, if we bring in 100 more international students, we can hire more instructors, we can offer more course sections, we can hire more support staff. This is why International students are valuable to colleges and universities. They allow us to expand our programs and offer more variety for everyone.

Third, to specifics... last year our Technology grads (Computing, Electronic, Mechanical, and Civil) were pretty much all hired before they finished final exams. Unemployment was running 3.1% and there was crazy demand. Mechanical engineering students that were accepted for this year were differing (putting off starting a year) because they had jobs before they even took the program. CRAZY! It's a little more sane now, as hiring has become a lot more difficult with all the Covid restrictions, but I don't expect our recent grads will have too much difficulty.

So, yeah... if you want a job in industry, find a community college in the area you want to work that offers a program designed to meet the needs of those employers, because that's what community colleges do.


And, answering the original question on getting you prerequisites for a course. First, you need to get an recognised English assessment test, which should be easy in HK. Program-specific requirements are different...

(and the lettering went red below so I think I'm typing too much)

So, just go here:
http://camosun.ca/international/future-students/
BCIT probably has a similar page.

Oh... more:
If you want that BS or BA Degree in BC, there are 3 ways:

1) you go to university.
2) you take a college program that offers a bridge to a university program.
3) you take all the 1st and 2nd year "University Transfer" (UT) courses you can at a college that directly transfer to the university you want (they publish transfer guides) and then go to 2nd or 3rd year university after that.

I'll explain #3. College is way cheaper than university. In a college, you'll have much smaller classes (some 1st year university classes are huge). You'll have much better access to the instructor (generally no Teaching Assistants running 1st and 2nd year classes). And, there's another reason to start in College. Colleges are first come, first serve, not grade-pointed admissions. If you meet the basic requirements, you just start taking courses. Doesn't matter if you were a C+ student or earned all A's in high school. By the time you're ready to go to university, it's pretty much your college marks that count.

I mean, many of the first 2 years of university are general survey courses anyway... why not do them in a more friendly and much cheaper place?

... I had a bachelor degree recently so What I concern about is if I could get a diploma and find a job to live then. ...

Just want to add that, as I understand it, the absolute best credentials for getting a job, besides years of experience in that job, is the degree/diploma combination.

If you have a degree from HK and a diploma from a local college, I highly doubt you'd have any issues finding work in your field, especially tech work.

Also, your bachelor degree being recent, I suspect you could get the math prerequisites without any tests. Just lots of paperwork.